Back in November, in response to repeated internet postings about how "Savage Worlds characters are all the same", I set out on a task: I made a party and advanced them through the ranks: Novice, Seasoned, Veteran and Heroic. Now, we're going to do the Legendary advances!
Some things to note: Legendary is theoretically infinite. You can still increase Attributes once every other advance, you can only take Power Points once, and you only get advances every 10 points instead of five. I'm doing four advances here, which is actually an additional 40 XP instead of the 20 I'd been doing.
DON'T HIT ME
1st: Fighting d12 (which also increases his Parry again).
2nd: Improved First Strike. He now gets a shot at everything that comes near him.
3rd: Weapon Master (Parry goes up one).
4th: Master of Arms (Parry +2).
DON'T HIT ME
Agility d10
Smarts d10
Spirit d6
Strength d6
Vigor d6
Fighting d12
Guts d6
Intimidation d6
Investigation d6
Notice d6
Taunt d8
Throwing d6
Charisma: 0
Pace: 6"
Parry: 7
Toughness: 4
Hindrances
Small (-1 Toughness)
Loyal
Bad Luck (1 less bennie per session)
Edges
Acrobat (+2 to nimbleness based Agility rolls, +1 to Parry)
Block (+1 to Parry)
Improved Block (+2 to Parry)
Danger Sense (Free Notice roll at -2 to avoid attack)
Dodge (-1 to avoid being hit with ranged attacks)
Improved Dodge (-2 to avoid being hit with ranged attacks)
Fencer (+1 to Parry while unecumbered, +1 to offset Called Shots)
First Strike (free attack when opponent gets into range)
Improved First Strike (free attack on every opponent that comes into range)
Giant Killer (+1d6 when attacking a foe three sizes larger than him.)
Level Headed (Acts on the better of two cards)
Improved Level Headed (Acts on the better of three cards)
Quick (redraw an initiatve card less than 5)
Strong Willed (+2 to Taunt/Intimidate)
Weapon Master (+1 Parry)
Master of Arms (+2 Parry)
Rapier (+1 Parry, for a 15), Damage d6+d4, Buckler Shield (+1 Parry, for a 16), Throwing Knife Damage d6+d4
HULK SMASH
1st: Improved Frenzy. Now he makes an extra attack with no penalty.
2nd: Tough As Nails (Toughness +1)
3rd: Improved Tough As Nails (Toughness +2)
4th: Professional (Strength). Strength is d12+1.
HULK SMASH
Agility d6
Smarts d4
Spirit d6
Strength d12+1
Vigor d12
Climbing d4
Fighting d10
Guts d8
Intimidate d8
Survival d4
Tracking d4
Charisma: -4
Pace: 8"
Parry: 7
Toughness: 11
Hindrances
Ugly
Overconfident
Mean
Edges
Adaptable: Barbaric Blood (spend a benny to trigger Berserk)
Berserk (Smarts roll upon being wounded, or go Berkserk, +2 Fighting/Strength rolls, -2 Parry, +2 Toughness, rolls of 1 hit random adjacent target)
Brawny (+1 Toughness)
Charge (ignore Running penalty when making a Fighting attack)
Combat Reflexes (+2 to become unShaken)
Fleet-Footed (Pace +2, d10 Running die)
Frenzy (1 extra attack at -2)
Improved Frenzy (1 extra attack at no penalty)
Might Blow (double damage on a Joker)
Nerves of Steel (ignores 1 level of wound penalties)
Professional (Strength)
Sweep (attack all adjacent foes at -2)
Improved Sweep (removes the Sweep penalty)
Tough As Nails (+1 Toughness)
Improved Tough As Nails (+2 Toughness)
Great Axe (Armor Piercing 1, Parry -1 for 6), Damage d12+1+d10, Chain Hauberk (Armor +2, for Toughness 13)
SNIPER
1st: Improved Double Shot. Now he has no penalty when firing two arrows at once.
2nd: Professional (Shooting). Shooting becomes d12+1.
3rd: Expert (Shooting). d12+2.
4th: Master (Shooting). d10 Wild Die when Shooting.
SNIPER
Agility d8
Smarts d8
Spirit d6
Strength d6
Vigor d6
Climbing d4
Fighting d8
Notice d6
Riding d4
Shooting d12+2
Stealth d8
Survival d8
Throwing d6
Tracking d8
Charisma: 0
Pace: 6
Parry: 6
Toughness: 5
Hindrances
Cautious
Wanted
Yellow
Edges
Alertness
Archer (Called Shot, Range and Cover Penalties are reduced by 1)
Combat Archer (Bow can be used at melee range and as a club, doing Str+d4)
Dark Fighting (Halves penalties for Shooting in the dark)
Dead Shot (Double damage on ranged attacks when a Joker is drawn)
Double Shot (Fire two arrows at 1 target with -2 penalty)
Improved Double Shot (Fire two arrows at 1 target with no penalty)
Marksman (Free Aim action as long as he doesn't move)
Professional (Shooting) (+1 to Shooting)
Expert (Shooting) (+2 to Shooting)
Master (Shooting) (d10 Wild Die for Shooting)
Steady Hands (removes unstable platform penalties)
Trademark Weapon (longbow, +1 to Shooting rolls)
Improved Trademark Weapon (longbow, +2 to Shooting rolls)
Woodsman (+2 to Stealth, Survival and Tracking rolls in Wilderness)
Longbow 2d6 damage, Leather armor (+1 for Toughness 6)
MR. WIZARD
1st: Smarts d12.
2nd: Power Points.
3rd: Spirit d10.
4th: Spellcasting d10 and Knowledge (Arcana) d10.
MR. WIZARD
Agility d8
Smarts d12
Spirit d10
Strength d4
Vigor d6
Charisma: +2
Pace: 4
Parry: 4
Toughness: 5
Power Points: 35
Gambling d6
Guts d6
Investigation d8
Knowledge (Arcana) d10
Lockpicking d6
Notice d4
Persuasion d6
Shooting: d4
Spellcasting d10
Streetwise d8
Hindrances
Bad Eyes
Lame
Poverty
Edges
Arcane Background: (Magic)
Attractive
Connections
Investigator (+2 to Investigation and Streetwise)
Power Points (+5 Power Points) (x5)
Wizard (use 1 less Power Point per raise on Spellcasting roll)
Powers
Boost/Lower Trait
Deflection
Detect/Conceal Arcana
Dispel
Obscure
Crossbow, nice clothes (fraying around the edges), cane.
FEARLESS LEADER
1st: Leader of Men. From Solomon Kane, this allows FEARLESS LEADER to apply his Leadership Edges to Wildcards.
2nd: Followers. Now he has a loyal cadre that believe in his cause and not just his money.
3rd: Fighting d10 and Guts d10.
4th: Intimidation d12.
FEARLESS LEADER
Agility d6
Smarts d10
Spirit d10
Strength d6
Vigor d6
Charisma: +4
Pace: 6
Parry: 7
Toughness: 5
Fighting d10
Guts d10
Intimidation d12
Knowledge (Battle) d10
Persuasion d10
Streetwise d8
Survival d4
Hindrances
Code of Honor
Doubting Thomas
Stubborn
Edges
Charismatic
Command (+1 to his troops for Shaken rolls)
Common Bond (share bennies with other Wild Cards)
Fervor (+1 to melee damage for troops)
Followers (Attract 5 Henchmen)
Hard to Kill (ignore Wound penalties when rolling on KO or Injury tables)
Hold the Line! (+1 Toughness for Troops)
Inspire (additional +1 for troops to become unShaken)
Leader of Men (Leadership Edges apply to Wild Cards)
Lucky
Majesty (Extras at Charisma x2 are at -1 to become unShaken)
Natural Leader (share bennies with troops)
Noble
Shortsword d6+d6, Plate (+3 Armor for 8 Toughness), Hirelings
THOUGHTS
I don't think they are that much alike at all. In fact, I also can't help but notice that, deep into Legendary, they still have plenty of room for improvement and advancement. The "weakest" is MR. WIZARD, and that was my fault because I didn't keep my eye on the concept. DON'T HIT ME is still vulnerable to ranged attacks and not a lot else (as his Agility should allow him to avoid most area attacks as well). HULK SMASH is still scary, with the sheer amount of damage that he can inflict AND absorb. SNIPER is the embodiment of the arrow, able to zap one target with two arrows while rolling d12+2 and a d10 Wild Die. Called Shots? No problem. FEARLESS LEADER utilizes his force of will to win battles and fires up his teammates with his Leadership Edges...such as HULK SMASH now gaining an extra +2 to become unShaken.
What's the verdict? Are Savage Worlds characters all the same?
And coming soon to this feature: Savage Supers...where I'm less trying to prove that they are all the same, and more to see just how Savage Worlds Supers scale, from Novice through Legendary.
I got Savage Worlds for Christmas this year. While I enjoy the size of the book (rather low buy-in, what with one book and a couple hundred pages) and the overall flavor of the game, I find the presentation and 'journey' through the book to be a bit clumsy. Still, it seems to be a nice system.
ReplyDeleteTo weigh in on the matter presented, characters are no more similar to one another than two class members of a d20 system would be. I use a home-brewed system that is point-based. I find this approach to spawn more interesting and diverse characters.
Surely I've chimed in prematurely, as I wasn't around to witness this silly declaration that SW characters are the same, but, well, I'm already out there, aren't I?
I've seen this canard pop up multiple times on message boards, usually from people who have never played the game, or played it once and, I suspect, everyone around the table jumped towards making basically the same guy.
ReplyDeleteSo this whole series started with me statting up two melee fighters who interacted with combat differently, and grew into this.
There was a point around Seasoned where I had to work a little harder at "niche protection", but after that, they went pretty wildly apart.
I hope you enjoy Savage Worlds...it's currently my favorite in-print system (or I wouldn't have bothered with all of this...=) ).
I agree, SW characters do not look more the same as characters in other RPG systems.
ReplyDeleteAnd if you like the system (!) is is every flexible, sturdy and can almost do anything.
Agreed.
ReplyDeleteI have ran supers, horror, western horror, pulp action and fantasy with it, and not only did it do them all fine, none of them felt like I was just running the same thing over and over again.
It's my favorite in-print system for a reason.
Congratulations, Tommy. I saw this post in the DriveThruRPG Newsletter. Pretty cool. I think that will get you a few more hits for The Most Unread Blog!
ReplyDeleteI've had the Savage Worlds Explorers Edition for quite a while now but have yet to do something with it. I also have Slipstream, which seems cool. Sigh. Now, again because of you, I will have to pull out SW and give it another look.
It's not that I disliked it I just thought it was to complex for my gaming group.
It had a VERY noticeable spike in traffic for the blog, actually...=)
ReplyDeleteWe haven't had any complexity issues, but we went from Deadlands Classic to Savage Worlds, and Classic is noticeably more complex than SW...in play, it is one of the fastest running systems I have ever used.
Do you play with the little ones?
ReplyDeleteThe only thing I've played with my son so far is ICONS and Star Wars Saga Edition.
ReplyDeleteI actually have no doubt that he could grasp Savage Worlds, because he was almost there with Star Wars, and God knows d20 is more of a bear than Savage Worlds is.
Wow, Star Wars Saga Edition. That's impressive. I'm afraid to look at that myself. I'll have to try Savage Worlds on my 10 yr old.
ReplyDeleteIt's the only official Star Wars game I will run. I prefer it to D6, and it's light years better than the previous two d20 incarnations.
ReplyDeleteWe went that route because my son is a *really* big Star Wars fan, and I was able to get a good deal on a trade for the corebook...(I now have the entire line, and managed to get everything at cover or less, even as books fell out of print).
I've got the D6 version but once again have never played it. The Force rules seem a bit complicated to me. I was thinking of simplifying it to Mini-Six with the Force as a type of "magic". Although I have kicked around the idea of converting Barbarians of Lemuria to Star Wars.
ReplyDeleteHave you thought of trying Savage Worlds with Star Wars?
That was actually Plan B if he proved to like the idea of the game, but not take to the game itself (or if I did).
ReplyDeleteThere is a Savage Worlds take on Star Wars floating around that I'm using for a play-by-post game right now. Might be a little clunky for a first draft but it is very playable.
ReplyDeleteIn one of the myriad SW games I've been playing, Mars, I am playing a Green Martian who's not terribly hard to hit, but is difficult to hurt while one of the other players has a character who is rather hard to touch. On our own (and in my initial ignorance and our experimentation as new SW players) we've pretty much pursued our own versions of "Hulk Smash" and "Don't Hit Me".
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile I have a newly created Super who'll be tough to hit be it melee or Shooting and a new Deadlands/Space 1889 cross-breed who will be a talker. Granted, in that last one, a lot of us have picked up Duelist edges, but the characters are all rather different.
Thanks for sharing that! In fact, I thought about (and may still) doing a Deadlands posse for the purpose of showing just such differentiation (i.e., how to make two or three gunslingers feel like their own characters).
ReplyDeleteI have a super/rifts character that is meant to be the face (fearless leader) but with her +6 CHR bonus, I cant seem to figure out how to get persuasion and streetwise into the game.
ReplyDeletemy persuasion rolls dont seem to have much effect on the enemy, even when im rolling (13) as my total.
ideas?
love the blog article path, well done. since nov 2009, SW has been my game of choice, I run Mars, Space 1889, Thrilling Tales, and a Top Secret/espionage crossover. I play in a deadlands/space1889, and a few others.
Love it.
Thanks for the compliments.
ReplyDeletePersuasion won't be immediately useful against most enemies, I would say...unless they are inherently inclined to not try to kill you. (Random thugs trying to ambush you in the street may be able to be talked down, but an assassin hired to kill you, definitely not).
Could you add links to the next article in this series to the end of the earlier articles? I just found and read the series today and that would have been a great help.
ReplyDeleteHm. Yeah, I can probably do that. It does seem to generate new traffic to the site that it would be worth the effort.
ReplyDeleteI know I am chiming in late here, but you are one guy who has purposly made the characters different as they were aged. I like savage worlds, but most games are short lived before players switch characters and games within SW. I jumped into a long running game for a few sessions and the characters around the table were pretty much the same. All the different players all wanted the the same for their PC as they advanced and ended picking up much of the same thing. There were 5 Errol Flyns around the table. LOL.
ReplyDeleteBut that's true of any system. If everyone sits around the table deciding to make the same character, the shockingly, their characters come out of it looking identical.
DeleteMy point is that Savage Worlds characters are far more versatile than some folks say...all that versatility means nothing if everyone still makes the same character and picks the same advances when they gain XP.
Exactly! Its really a player thing instead of the Savage Worlds System.
Delete